you tomorrow.

♪ lou: good evening. the pounding, deafening drumbeat for gun control is rising. emanating principally from washgton, the present, and members of his party in congress the tragedy at santee elementary school in loudobbs@foxbusiness.com connecticut provoking calls for solutions and prevention of such budget. >> are we really prepared to say that we are powerless in the face of such carnage? that the politics are too hard. now we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom? lou: several democratic lawmakers echoing the president's statements within all the hours of that shooting in pushing for a new second amendment of chechen. the senate's number two democrat says congressional hearings on gun control are on the way.

senator dianne feinstein telling to get an assault weapon ban bill on the floor next month. senator chuck schumer of new york since in a political opportunity, passing gun-control insulation. >> i think we could be added to pinpoint for two reasons. to pinpoint where we might acally get something done. first, this was not a single incident. second, of course, it involves children. lou: hardly anyone is using to talk about mental illness, the disaffection of the mentally disturbed, the importance of a strong family and how to better protect our schools. we'll be taking on those issues tonight, talking with former homeland security director and virginia tech review panel member governor tom ridge. also, a closer look at what congress is having some much trouble getting answers from america's top diplomat on the benghazi terrorist attack..

author jean marie last this on her new book, hidden america, which celebrates the people that are too often ignored but do the jobs that make our lives in this country work. our first guest tonight says gun laws are critical part of this national discussion, butthe countrylso needs, hesays, to respond to the mental ealth issues when it comes time mass shootings as well as the corrosive influence of the digital world in the culture of violence. joining us, former common security sectary, former governor of pennsylvania, tom ridge, who also served on te review panel to study the virginia tech shooting which claimed the lives of 32 people. good to have you with this. let's strt with the culver legislation here, senator dianne

feinstein is putting forward something that looks very familiar to you which is the assault weapons ban which he supported when you were in congress back in 1994. what are your thoughts? >> i think it certainly understandable, predictable that the first focuses on the instruments of this tragedy, the instruments of war, and those of the firearms and the guns. i think, and i hear reread to pinpoint. this is a game changer. i heard the same language upper columbine and virginia tech and the or shootings. we hear it again. unless we take a far more comprehensive look at the root causes of some of this violence, a single piece of legislation is going to do very little. it may do some and have some impact on reducing the risk of further tragedy such as this, but the effect will be limited. we have to talk about other

rights and challenges, the right to privacy, mental health record i do think in spite of the disagreement that i have put some people that the corrosive impact of the violence, particularly on those troubled with mental health challenges, i do think it has an impact on their view of life and people without those challenges with look differently. >> we are seeing some surprising pronouncements from across the political spectrum. senator joe mansion, who you know, coming up to talk about banning assault weapons again. actor jamie foxx from the left, some would argue the far left talking about the need to constraint violence and hollywood in media. we are starting to see now more than 72 hours after the tragedy in connecticut, we are starting to see some sensibility present itself in terms of dealing straightforwardly and honestly with this issue.

overdue. >> if you take a look at some of the more significant high-profile incidents, the whole association of these murders and massive killing and we go back and take a look at the perpetrators and to take a look at the self expressions of either suicidal tendencies or their intent to kill. planned activities. self-destructive behavior. many of them certainly in the case in virginia tech had a clear pattern of mental-health illness. as a matter of fact committed to rereading pattern of mental-health illness. until we wrestled around the notion that we have to get away from stigmating mental health and figure out a way to make sure that those who are being treated for mental health problems don't have access to firearms, until we wrestle with the very complicated problems of privacy, particularly with regard to medical conditions, now they're focusingn guns and

gun regulations, but unless we look holistic we unfortunately this pattern will probably repeat itself. lou: the characteristics you were talking about also are an analog for laughter, the gunman in tucson and appear at least some of those characteristics to appear in this tragedy in new town connecticut. so little discussion from one event to the next try to understand the psychology, the context, and the public policy can this that is relevant, and rare looking at what has been over the course of the last 50 years, an extraordinary series of public policy decisions where it comes to mental health, as you weel know in this country. many of them a travesty and for which we are paying very, very high price indeed. sadly, again, shows such as yours and others that have

always tough fashion the discussion, it really needs to be a rational boffo discussion about the measures that we can take in predictably and understandably guns are ing to be a focus. the complexity of the issue is far more than just dealing with the instruments of terror. @% know, think of all the parties and celebrations around this holiday season. can you imagine the conversation with one parent saying to another, well, how was your son doing? well, pretty well, but we had some mental health problems in these and the treatment of their peak we have stigmatize did, but we don't stigmatize alcoholism or drug abuse which is a pervasive problem that we will have o get our arms around. those who have these mental problems should not have access to firearms. there are other changes that i think would be legitimately considered. columbine, i think you had a phantom wore a straw buyer or to, somebody who bought the weapon and give it to somebody else. in new he was under - the

virginia courts city is a danger to himself in this community and it is able to buy a firearm. the complexity of the issue calls for rational discussion. lou: thanks for being with us. president obama's first callll after winning his second termter went to president bill clinton. hey, what happened to governore chris christie? former clinton special counsel wnd steven haze of the weeklye standard dryness. [poignant country music] ♪ ♪ remember when ♪ we vowed the vows and walked the walk

♪ and gave our hearts ♪ made a start and it was hard ♪ ♪ we lived and learned ♪ life threw curves ♪ there was joy, there was hurt ♪ ♪ remember when ♪ ♪ remember when ♪ we said when we turned gray ♪ ♪ when the children ♪ grow up and move away ♪ we won't be sad ♪ we'll be glad ♪ for all the life we've had ♪ and we'll remember when ♪

♪ remember when

♪ lou: exit polls show a deepenini racial divide, some say, at the voting groups. d key groups such as hispanics,

blacks and asians puttingbama oe president obama over the top.cta the strength of support.e stre joining us now, former specialrm counsel to president clintonide lonnie davis, steven hayes, senior writer for the weeklythey standard, but fox newthcontr contributors, and that thank you both for being here. i am uncomfortable saying that this is susch a big deal, but t polls suggest soething.st if we may look to these very quickly, the makeup of the electorate not appreciably different from 2008 if we could look at that graphic police. 74 percent white back in the weight. 72 percent this year to read we. see the numbers rise slightly. but the reality is that theht support for president obama for president obama of monks in the demographic groups, if we could take a look at that, the support for president obama, i'm

sure that this is, you know, very interesting. he lost about four points of support. he lost suppor as well down 2%. hispanics picked up 4%. asians pickd up remarkably. a very small percentage. that does not look like such a big deal because it represents basically what happened in l.a. >> we have to look at politics. this network is trying to explain why he predicted a romney landslide, and a lot of other conservatives are trying to blame in all on romney. it reminds me of what we democrats winter after 1972. the late and beloved note george mcgovern no longer with u was blamed for the landslide a 72. we lost 80, 84, in '88 and they're still blaming the candid

it's. it was not the candid, and it was not the way he communicated. it was the message. it was -- it took bill clinton to redo the map and barack obamacare continued that legacy. the reason why the hispanic vote went for broke, is because bit romney made him look liberal n immigration policy. did not follow george bush's policies and innovation, or you might ve been president. it s about content, not the communication. lou: is not one to answer my question on the racial divide. i will try with you. >> well, i think the numbers speak for themselves. the fact that the electorate this time, the change in the percentages among white voters. if the romney campaign got l, the percenges they thought they needed to we might be talking about a different result

. much bigger story tothe failure to provide a clear contrast in competing views of the way that the country is going to move toward. lou: a clear contrast. basically the republicans took the day off. ty just didn't sw up. these are extraordinary numbers, the level of turnover republicans. i'm hearing all of this stuff from have reached to this group, change the message, adopt policies, and all of which may be true. i would support it, but the fact is, that does not look like the reason that romney lost. does it? >> well, i'm sorry if i did not directly answer your message. that is not the reason. lou: we will catch up. >> they're racial analysis is not the reason that romney african americans supported a

fellow african american the same way irish catholics to, but if barack obama had been against helping people who are in the underclass, the lower economic level, if he had not proposed policies that african americans can support then take a lk at women. the fact that mitt romney was still talking about the pro-life position and the anti-gay rights position on social issues, he lost because of his message to hispanic because he was in favor of self supporting 11 million people. that is why i mentioned his positions and their substance i not what i think it -- it means there was contrast. lou: what do you mean? >> there are a number of areas in which there was not enough contrast. if you look at the way that romney talked about taxes, apologetic. very effectively made mitt

romney looked like he wasgoing to raise taxes on the middle-class. that was the cry based on this one study. weeks and weeks and weeks. any time the rpublican candidate is viewed as the tax sector. in many had to defend his position in the debate he was a way out of his way to say, if you are wealthy and all you're not getting any tax cuts, and it was a defensive argument on a fundamental issue rather than pointing president obama had twice argue in public that raising taxes in an economic downturn would doom the economy. the president of the united states said that and iran on a proposal. lou: two things that seem peculiar. i would love for both of you to respond. i heard a lot of bonn, abou the tea party. the tea party did not exist in this election. it was a non fctor.

why in the world would there be so much concerin the republican party about the tea party. why was there an idea that you're better off today than you were four years ago and pick 2008 as the year, he baseline, and it was a lousy year. in point of fact, just about everybody is. what o you make? very quickly. >> your immediate questn, yes, we were better off than the depths of being in a whole. president clinton explained the argument that we were climbing t. by that time election day, th percentage of people is of the country going in their right correction,saw the economy improving, higher than has been, ronald reagan when he was reelected. lou: i don't have the time. >> he was there.

lou: this is the -- why did he call -- mixing his old boss. why did he not call first governor chris christie who gave him the photo op, four and half hours and a big hug there was persuasive to just about 15 percent of the voters. should that not have been his first document. >> probably did not want to run again. facing a lot of questions like those. lou: there are no questions. a man and it is presint the gilded photo, embedded in the minds of 15 percent of the voters. >> i agree. i said that before. as said it would happen. i thought that was going to be a big factor, a it turns out it was. i don't think it ends up deciding the election. lots of other things that ended up, but ther is no question that having chris christie give president obama that figurative

and literal embracef the national tage a week before the election when he was the keynote speaker at the republican convention was held to the president's. >> and the your out of time. of all was right on the issue according to the poll and is suppord his position. lou: we will take note of two things. yourandid one. your former boss played a bi part. wewould bot agree that governor christie probably should have been telling you know, a conference call to the both of

agree with mr. obama when he said, we can't tolerate this any re. he's right. but we are tolerating so much that we should not in this country. should we tolerate the murders of almost 500 people in one city over 01 your time frame? preserve our national grief for 20 children and six adults slaughtered in a matter of minutes last friday. should there be as well a presidential presence in multi religion prayer vigil in chicago perhaps as well a speech by the present to the nation. and please don't misunderstand

me. i applaud the president's sense of words and the time he shared with the families of the citizens of the town yesterday to my but he would also urge reflexion and consideration of the facts when we now them and take into account the fact that we do know. chicago right now is the murder capital of this country. those killings in chicago have risen to 20 percent of the past year. up 20%. despite the lmost always on mentioned fact that chicago has one of the toughest gun-control laws of almost any city in this country. the president called for change and change is underway. a federal appellate court tossed out the state of illinois ban of concealed weapons. the last state to deny that right to its citizens. compared illinois to states that permit concealed carry like virginia and in the five-year

time guarantee does is extends to those mullen, two dozen sex- 2011, a lot of facts in this, but there are facts that we need to assemble and examine together to have a national discussion. there will be more and more each night on this broadcast. on that five your time from the number of firearms but in the state of virginia rose by an astonishing 73%. just firms. the total number of gun related violent crimes fall by 24% in at 5 your time during. in fact, violent crime in this country has been steadily plummeting since 1990, something a lot of people are not taking note of. in 1990 to stem the 2 million violent crimes were committed

last year 2011 that number had fallen to one to. 600,000 fewer crimes as our population grew by 25%. the number includes mass shootings. in the 2000's there were 26. that's down from 32 in the 1990's. something else has changed. in 1990 it was reported that 78 percent of those surveyed, 78 percent wanted a stricter, tougher gun loss. today that number is 44%. what is the right answer? we will come to a decision about that, ational consensus, if you will, if our political leaders, community leaders, national

leaders accept the idea that there cannot be a rush to judgment, a reflexive response but rather an intelligent assessment of the facts, facts that we don't even know yet in newtown conn., facts that we have to keep in mind as we assess what is happening in our society, the influence of media, culture, and back to new town. we will, in this discussion, if our leaders live up to their titles, assess the facts. tonight, on the verge of collapse. egyptians not as enthusiastic for their new constitution as the muslim brotherhood will like . tierney and democracy in the middle east next. ♪ @c@f?

she has a concussion. joining us now, a pulitzer prize-winning journalist and fox news contributor judith miller, editor of a long board journal, senior fellow at the foundation for defense of democracies, and it's good to have you with us. let me begin with you. this report, in your judgment going to allay concerns, answer the questions that are posed about what happened to you is responsible. >> it's going to shut a lot of what a lot of the questions that you and other people have been asking repeatedly about benghazi. pinkerton, the man who is in

charge of this is really experienced, seen all of the kind of excuses before. he knows how to assign blame. lou: do you agree, bill? >> i don't agree as much. i think washington certainly has a culture of covering for each other. i don't see that this report is pointing such stark figures. i expect there will be a lot of ops vacation on the int of who is actually responsible, and we won't see. in the wake of september 11th no one resigned and was fired. i don't expect any fee to be held to the fire from much smaller incident like and gusty. lou: the accountability, the fact is there is one, i guess we can call him producer of an amateurish video. that person is in jail. there has been no other accountability for the events that transpired. i want said -- just to support

bills point there, i want to turn to, if i may, secretary clinton's absence from the congressional inquiry process. she said she did not want to testify. the first time she was in asia with the president. the second time she had said she did not want to testify. ththird si she said she had a concussion and then everyone kamal of us would be concerned about her well-being, but the concussi came at the most fortuitous time. are you at all suspect? >> in washington and even in new york one must be suspicious of all claims of this kind. however, i do believe that if a doctor says she has a concussion she has a concussion. whether or not is the most politically fortunate call for at this point and i don't know. in a report like this the

ambassador is going to have to answer some of the questions that we have been raising. and blame will have to be assigned. there are four dead americans. we cannot just forget about the income pretended did not happen. we have to ask tough questions about security. hillary clinton has been a master at dodging either appearing on air, she put out susan rice instead to do that. she has been a master so far of dodging responbility. lou: define a. >> except she can claim. she says, i accept responsibility before the president did. lou: it was such a stampede to accept responsibility that one gets lost and some o the numbers. but i think we have to point out that the facts are that she says ambassador rice appeared on those fox stations not at the request of secretary clinton but rather the white house itself. i don't know if that is a distinction without a difference . your final thoughts on benghazi.

what we can reasonably hope for. the heck with hope for. what do you think we can reasonably expect here? >> what i think we should hope for is -- lou: okay. hope for. >> i think all this talk about susan rice is sort of a reflection from the real issue and the press release to ask these questions. i would like to think that this report will get to the bottom of it. it seems like everybody is turning the other way and running instead of taking responsibility for modifying the talking points. we knew within 12 hours of the attackthat they were involved in this attack on benghazi, and yet we're told that this attack was coming out of some protest. that's not the case. there was never a protest. an organized attack on the consulate. the american public should be made aware of that.

unfortately there were not given the truth prior to the election. lou: they were, to be associated with fox news, they were apprised of those facts. in fact, the act that the group had posted on its website of morning of the attack before it occurred as well as claiming credit for it after it happened. i take your point and thank you for being here and hope you'll come back soon. thank you soe much. fiscalpr cliff fight, competing si proposals. l bunce when did leaders talkabou about talking but not sit down at the same table? what is wrong with obama and the they speaker? ris they really think this is aam? game? michael ramirez of investor's business daily joins us next. ♪

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[indistinct chatter] [kids talking at once] [speaking foreign language] [heart beating] [heartbeat continues] [faint singing] [heartbeat, music playing louder]

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in a recent cartoon he draws a young barack obama at the blackboard. he is a two-time pulitzer prize-winning editorial cartnist senior editor with investors business daily. great to have you with us. be appreciated so muh. i love your cartoons, and i would wat to ajust, if we may, go to a few more of them to get your remarks. i want to firsit your idea of what you think of the fiscal cliff. you have tough find this to be rich father. absolutely. i alwys suggest, but the best tag riders in the world work for politicians. this white house is giving me plenty of fodder for curtains.

anit is funny to think about these events, but a very traumatic and serious. they avoid the fiscal cliff. we are talking about over $607 billion worth of money taken out of the economy next year. lou: i just want to put up the next cartoon that we have. it matters not whih one you select. but this is one of my favorites. the debt commission saying it is very difficult. is very complicated and then cut spending. i don't think you could have cut better on to the essence of the issue. the absurdity creating obstacles to that relution in washington d.c. >> but the problem here is that

frankly there is a fine and out of capital that can be used up their divided either in the private sector which creates businesses and jobs and federal revenue or given to the government which is just a bureaucracy ad creates nothing but burearatic management if you look at the lt gop congress andthe expenditures, about two and half trillion dollars and now the president's proposals are about 4 trillion in spending with deficits and increased. it is the economy. lou: it truly is. and i want to also if we may put up the cartoon. we do this very elegantly here. please put up the carto. the envelope. i just wanted to see that.

it is great. the corner from the nation of achievement, mainstream america usa to the nation of entitlement . i mean, that s to meet not only with the committee is brilliant. can we put that back up? i want to show you something. some might mess in that cartoon. if you look at the stamp in the upper right, and $0.0. it is a food stamp. i have to say, we are looking at a president who is willing, as you know, an ssistant on $82 billion of tax increases on the so-called wealthy, the top@ 2%. and that is going to amount to just about nine das, almost nine days a lot bring the federal gornment's. more andmore absurd proportions

>> it really is absurd. when you think about it, the deficits cast, over a trillion dollars for e next four years. freckly this will add $80 billion a year. it is nonsense. it is a parody of reality, and the bld is not responsible about their duty is being fiscal managers for the united states. when you think about that, $20 trillion in four years. if you paid off a dollar a second you're talking about 670,000 years to pay is tough. the response is impractical, and when you look at the biggess growth which is entitlements and think about the dynamic shift in the demographics, people are geing older, livi longer, the costs attributed to that with less workers, our population is not growing at much to mike catastrophic. if they don't do something realistic to curb spending

problem. lou: as of tonight it looks like there is nothing ealistic going on in washington d.c. imagine that. it is s money and where it goes. you heard me talk for years about importae of our middle class and respect for those who work. no matter what the job. next, a terrific author wse new book celebrates the workers of what she calls hidden american coal.

coal miners are part of what my next guest calls the hidden american, the people we seldom notice, but who do theobs that

make our lives livable and make this nation work, joining me now is jean-marie it is great to have you with us, congratulations, a terrific book, i love the fact that you focus on the people who as you suggestion, with the title, we don't think enough about who we don't resct enough who we don't express enough gratitude for, what made you start on this book. >> the notion that we're really disconnected. this election cycle, these are people who we have very abstrac conversations about, we talk about what theyment, what they are asking for, who they are, we actually don't know them as individuals, two years ago i was in a coal min meeng theolks

and got interested in the fac that there are all these people that i depend on eve day in my life. lou: this is taking you on a journey, you know cowboys, migrant workers you name it. what is it you want "the reader" to take away from your book. becauset i always, make the language dance, a terrific book, a terrific read, but, there is something gnawing at your craw you want to communicate to folks, what is that one thing, if it could be summed up. >> i think that stories take on a life of their own, and reader will attach to a character in a different way, however, i will say for me on this jrney, through america, in this way, it is really challenged my inner

spoiled brat, like we walk around as if these are our rights, light, our trash will disappear, the things will just happen, if they don't happen right, you know there is something that been you know we've been treated wrong or something. and we forget. lou: we're entitled. >> yes, ande forget they are privileged, that are built on the backs of millions of hard working americans. lou: i like the way you looke at cowboys, i tell sort of us -- will not say surprisedve

everyone in arica wants to be rich, and famous and known, a lot of people doing a lot of jobs, they don't want t be noticed. you know air traffic controllers, they don't want you to hear about them, that means they messed up, they are like angels up there in their towers. lou: there are people who don't want to be as you said, 1% but they don't want to be part of that whatever that perceet is that lives on entitlement who n't work, who don't want to contribute or who don't want to find their full potential, and realize the opportunities of a life that is there and they could seize it. that independence, that self-reliance you don't hear that much. >> i found that over again, i don't know who these people are that wehink we want to live a life of entitl en tightment hani

do not know who those people are, these are hard, you know americans work hard, they want to work hard. it is not as if this is a you know some abstract notion for them, people like their jobs. you know they like doing these things. >> they like working. >> yes, my goodness. lou: they don't want to depend on government? >> i think they -- >> i justmented to see if we could -- i just wanted t see if we could get that far. >> i think they want to be taken care of at the hospital when they go there and make se they have enough money to pay medical bills,. lou: they want to make a ling wage, that and i think that is something that everyone should have -- that is an entitlement, there should be an opportunity to make a good living, that is something we let the sob's take away, that is something we have to get fixed. maybe this november 6 wwll be a

opportunity. >> this depends on who those sob's are. lou: first thing to do is identify the sob's youet a language way toward doing that. -- long way toward doing, that jean-marie,ry hav we have identa terrific writer, a wonderful book. you can go to her web site. and pick it up in your bookstore. any number of places, did i mention lou dobbs.com too.

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